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Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters.... |
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#1 |
Member
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elf, I agree with you, the color is only one of the problem, but it is the one that can be cleared up relatively easily. If there was mixing, to produce red puppies, at least two mixings (with at least 1 SW) would have to occur. So once is a possibility of accident, but twice... I mean, experienced breeder, especially one with several breeding females and stud dogs, should be able to produce pups of only declared fathers...
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Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws |
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#2 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 369
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Originally posted by elf :
"In addition, mixing could occured without the breeder noticed it, when the french breeder visited Edit's kennel some years ago, she noticed there was a (male red colored) Saarloos there and had some concern about it." Hmmm....interesting...! Originally posted by saschia : "I mean, experienced breeder, especially one with several breeding females and stud dogs, should be able to produce pups of only declared fathers..." Yeah, you are right - such breeder SHOULD BE able to do so, no question! |
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#3 |
Senior Member
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Hello friends. Is here somebody who has children of pair Moňa z Krotkovskeho dvora + Fallko Kollarov dvor? Or maybe we need pups from Moňa separatelly and Falko´s pups separatelly too.We will be happy about their DNA for help to explain what hapenned in Lorry´s kennel. Thank you.
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#4 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 988
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If so, I thank in advance all those who have taken the step to want to help me understand ![]() Merci Hanka de tous les efforts que vous faites et de votre soutien ... |
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#5 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 988
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Hanka, remember my mail recently sent ..... Is it possible that Daniela comes into contact with the person who agrees to conduct such tests with his dog (she is a veterinarian, so no problem for it to make itself the levy in the rules) In terms of lineage, it is a half brother Galiba (1/2 frères de Galiba) (with Falko in father) so very interesting for a reliable result |
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#6 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 66
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I'm just wondering, because this does not necessarely have to be the case. If there is any inbreeding (like in this case there is), then it does not need more than one individual to introduce a new trait (recessive gene) into the lineage/breed. Because due to inbreeding, this one individual may end up appearing in both parent's sides in the pedigree. -And in such situation, the chances are that some day in some certain pairing the recessive gene gets doubled, and so it appears in the phenotype of some offspring. Of course there CAN be more than one "oopsie daisy" (a mix up by accident or on purpose) taken place. But I just wanted to point out, that if suddenly some weird looking puppies of homozygous recessive genotype (like in this case bb / brown coloured) occurs, it may very well be a result of only one "oopsie daisy" that is just doubled in the pedigree (comes from both parent's sides). Recessive traits may jump over several generations unnoticed, and it may take time before (due to the chances of random selection of the genes) some day some certain individual will inherit two copies of this recessive gene, that once came from possibly only one certain anchestor who passed it forward over several generations. Last edited by Jennin Lauma; 09-06-2011 at 04:47. |
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#7 | |
Member
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Recessive gene, that would be shown by puppies of Sibir and Thalia (and nowhere else!) could be introduced by either Fallko, or Mona, because they are the common relatives. Or by mixing, and declaring false parents, but if we do not accept the possibility, that Fallko or Mona were mixes, then the mixing would have had to occur twice at least, once for Thalia and once for Sibir or one of his parents.
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Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws |
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#8 | |
Moderator
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and .. very easy make pedigree for falsh dogs when not mas have DNA testing in puppy but .. genetic not lie - we can see diferent in anatomy not only in color. |
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#9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,061
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http://abnormality.purpleflowers.net/genetics/ some explanation about coat colors
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#10 | |
Member
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Amber eyes vary from light brown (overlapping with the lighter eyes sometimes found in black-pigmented dogs) to yellow, yellow-green or grey." Well, although their information is not wrong (hopefully), it is quite incomplete, so it needs to be taken accordingly. Otherwise thanks for the link, it is interesting read.
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Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws |
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#11 |
Moderator
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A simple color mutation would not change the dog tipicity, you all would be able to recognize them as czechoslovakian wolfdog because they would be typical dogs according to the standard.
Even by such simple photo we can have an idea that the skull proportions are wrong! And not only that, if we look at the pups of the mentioned litters we all will see that the dogs are weird according to the standard, ones more, others less. Lets forget about the nice history of a possible mutation and get real about a possible accident envolving mixes. It also kick out the possibility of an pedigree analysis, we only can guess where this saarloos (or other) entered. There is an unknown dog (or more) at these pedigrees which we dont know when entered and how, the COI and everything else will be wrong.
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#12 | |
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