Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

Hanka · 08-09-2011, 13:23

I know all this thread, I read it .....
But what is "suspeced" on him?

admin · 08-09-2011, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

But what is "suspeced" on him?

The untypical red colours (but also atypical masks) which appear by his puppies can be advice that he he is not purebreed CsW. The DNA test of the red Wolfdogs were done in France so it is proven that the red puppies are sired by son of Galiba. Additoonally we all sa the photos of the red Saarloos living by Crying Wolf.
So the next step is the suggestion that the problem comes from Galiba and Crying Wolf kennel.

Because the breeder reject the possibility to make the DNA tests by Galiba and other "suspected" dogs by this kennel all we can do is to take "under investigation" all dogs coming from Crying wolf and related to the "suspected" dogs.

Till the case will be cleared and the DNA tests will be done...

Shadowlands · 08-09-2011, 17:18

So does that include all dogs coming from the litter mates of Galiba too?

Shadowlands · 08-09-2011, 18:22

I've just had a quick look on the database and, by my reckoning, Galiba has sired about 17 dogs who have then produced around 200 and then another over 100 in the next generation. This is serious if you are talking of 'blocking' any dog with Galiba's blood, with no concrete proof of a problem.

yukidomari · 08-09-2011, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

I've just had a quick look on the database and, by my reckoning, Galiba has sired about 17 dogs who have then produced around 200 and then another over 100 in the next generation. This is serious if you are talking of 'blocking' any dog with Galiba's blood, with no concrete proof of a problem.

yes, and it'd be nice if galiba's owner would simply give DNA and clear it up! it is they who are really holding all other potentially affected dogs and breeders 'hostage'..

Shadowlands · 08-09-2011, 18:34

I know it is Yukidomari, but nobody seems able to do anything about the fact. Also, say she does eventually test and is found to have crossed - what does that mean for all the people who have bought, and in some cases bred from, these dogs in good faith believing them to be pure? It is a nightmare

yukidomari · 08-09-2011, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

I know it is Yukidomari, but nobody seems able to do anything about the fact. Also, say she does eventually test and is found to have crossed - what does that mean for all the people who have bought, and in some cases bred from, these dogs in good faith believing them to be pure? It is a nightmare

it is

unfortunately in my opinion if these dogs are proven to be mixes there is no other choice but to petition for the revocation of pedigrees for these dogs and any progeny of these dogs, or at the least, for WD to label them as such if the FCI or national KCs can't be persuaded..

Not doing so makes a mockery of the pedigree system at its very foundation, which is keeping accurate purebreed pedigrees with only outcrossing granted when approved by a committee in charge, not by random individuals who are able to hide their misdeeds for however long.

terrible for all involved, regardless.

admin · 08-09-2011, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

I've just had a quick look on the database and, by my reckoning, Galiba has sired about 17 dogs who have then produced around 200 and then another over 100 in the next generation.

It is a SERIOUS problem. The red Wolfdogs were born two years ago. Nothing was made official - two years were LOST because the French breeder decided to clear it directly with Crying Wolf; because of it it was hidden. It is not a accusation towards the French breeder but a simple conclusion. Nothing was reached since the Hungarian breeder do not want to cooperate. And in that time the Galiba offsprings spread among the Wolfdogs.

So nobody stoped it when there were 17 offsprings. But it is better to stop it when there are 200 offsprings than to stop it later when there will be 400 CsW with Saarloos blood spread all over the world.

And IF Galiba or any other dogs in his line are Saarloos-mixes the whole line will get remark "Mixes" even if there will be 1000 of them. I think exactly the Galiba offspring owners should help to solve the problem. Before is too late and more dogs will be "affected"... I'm worried because the will to clear it seems to be missing not only by Crying Wolf breeder but also by the puppy owners. What make me personally even more "suspicious"....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

This is serious if you are talking of 'blocking' any dog with Galiba's blood, with no concrete proof of a problem.

Yes, you are right. But there is a proove: red Wolfdogs born in France where two parents come from Crying Wolf. RED - with red nose. This colour DO NOT EXIST by Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. AND both parents must be "carriers".
So there are some other breeds (according the photos it was the red Saarloos) mixed with CsW by Crying Wolf.
The only "problem" is to localize when it happend.

So there are some problems:
Which Crying Wolfs are "under investigation"? When the Saarloos mixed with CsW? When it happend?
It would be not fair to ban all Crying Wolf dogs and their offsprings because some of them can be really purebreed.

yukidomari · 08-09-2011, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin

I think exactly the Galiba offspring owners should help to solve the problem. Before is too late and more dogs will be "affected"... I'm worried because the will to clear it seems to be missing not only by Crying Wolf breeder but also by the puppy owners. What make me personally even more "suspicious"....

Hi, from what generation dogs do you need? those directly born from Galiba, or can it be the generation after, or so?

admin · 08-09-2011, 19:00

Short time ago I received interesting message saying that the problem can be not Galiba and his litter mates but his offsprings and other dogs born by CW in that time.

One of the east European breeders wrote me that strange things happened with Galiba. AS reported there were more breeders who covered their females with this dog but ALL the females stayed empty. The ONLY litters (with one exclussion) were born by Crying Wolf. Miracle happend because Galiba was announced as sterile.

Maybe it the explanation... Because "affected" would be Sibir (father of the red dogs in FR) and Volos (father of the Saarloos alike dogs from France). It will be also explanation why the Crying Wolf breeder is so much afraid about the DNA tests. Because it can show that Galiba is not the father of Sibir?

admin · 08-09-2011, 19:02

So short: what should be checked on the beginning is - if the father of Sibir is really Galiba.

If not than: if the reall father is the Saarloos.

Of yes - than how many CW dogs are sired by the Saarloos living by CW.

BeatriceSlavinschi · 09-09-2011, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin

Maybe it the explanation... Because "affected" would be Sibir (father of the red dogs in FR) and Volos (father of the Saarloos alike dogs from France).

Admin, let me understand ... also Sibir and Volos are suspected of being saarlos mixes, or only their offsprings? Because if they aren't, maybe is the mother of that litters with saarlos genes... ??? As I saw in the database, they have puppies only in France and some of french breeders are known to bred mixes ... right?

08-09-2011, 13:23	#1
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	I know all this thread, I read it ..... But what is "suspeced" on him?

08-09-2011, 17:18	#3
Shadowlands Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vidin Posts: 391	So does that include all dogs coming from the litter mates of Galiba too?

08-09-2011, 18:22	#4
Shadowlands Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vidin Posts: 391	I've just had a quick look on the database and, by my reckoning, Galiba has sired about 17 dogs who have then produced around 200 and then another over 100 in the next generation. This is serious if you are talking of 'blocking' any dog with Galiba's blood, with no concrete proof of a problem.

08-09-2011, 18:34	#6
Shadowlands Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Vidin Posts: 391	I know it is Yukidomari, but nobody seems able to do anything about the fact. Also, say she does eventually test and is found to have crossed - what does that mean for all the people who have bought, and in some cases bred from, these dogs in good faith believing them to be pure? It is a nightmare

08-09-2011, 19:00	#10
admin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 583	Short time ago I received interesting message saying that the problem can be not Galiba and his litter mates but his offsprings and other dogs born by CW in that time. One of the east European breeders wrote me that strange things happened with Galiba. AS reported there were more breeders who covered their females with this dog but ALL the females stayed empty. The ONLY litters (with one exclussion) were born by Crying Wolf. Miracle happend because Galiba was announced as sterile. Maybe it the explanation... Because "affected" would be Sibir (father of the red dogs in FR) and Volos (father of the Saarloos alike dogs from France). It will be also explanation why the Crying Wolf breeder is so much afraid about the DNA tests. Because it can show that Galiba is not the father of Sibir?

08-09-2011, 19:02	#11
admin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 583	So short: what should be checked on the beginning is - if the father of Sibir is really Galiba. If not than: if the reall father is the Saarloos. Of yes - than how many CW dogs are sired by the Saarloos living by CW.