Demoniak de la Louve Blanche

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Daiva, Demoniak is a pure csw! He is more pure than any other living csw, because he is much more close to a carpathian wolf than any other csw. Very simple.

Christian - I have no idea what did you heard about his origin but one thing I'm sure. He is not a high percentage cross of EUROPEAN WOLF. He has American blood.

Look on his offsprings:








It is obvious that there is American/Canadian blood inside. If it was a European Wolf which they used to make Demoniak then they mixed it with Husky for sure.

I saw many European Wolves and some of their crosses. NONE look like those animals... I have no idea who told you such lie but kick him...

[hanninadina]

Lol, ok ok Margo, hahaha, so I guess I was right and Skog is the father of Demoniak, hahaha.

But to be honest, if you look at the pics from Demoniak and Doz they look almost like brother and sister. Here a pic. And they look on all pics like brother and sister. And I guess, you better know than me, that Doz is a daughter from a carpathian wolf male and a csw.

Wolweryne is a son of CPouchka, who is a daughter of american wolfdog Uncas. That is why he looks in winter coat like typicla american wolfdog.

But one is for sure, Demoniak behaves, moves and looks like a F 2.

[wolfin]

ah but I very good member a wolf- dog mix in germany who was close in self and runn from a touch. This type behavior mas have your dreams wolfdog in future? for this think mas begin breed a new breed without agresive and strong CSW dogs blood with who you have a problem to control.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by wolfin

ah but I very good member a wolf- dog mix in germany who was close in self and runn from a touch. This type behavior mas have your dreams wolfdog in future? for this think mas begin breed a new breed without agresive and strong CSW dogs blood with who you have a problem to control.

Wait Daiva, I remember it now. I know what Christian means. He is right - the animal which he saw was EXTREMELY shy. But it was not your dog or any from the G-litter.

Originally Posted by wolfin

And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.

Christian, it was not F5 but F8 (or F9). I know which dog was bounded to the tree and affraid of everything - it was a male from Crying Wolf kennel.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

But one is for sure, Demoniak behaves, moves and looks like a F 2.

What does a F2 dog behave like? Because if it's anything like most F2s here, it is not suitable for living in the city and going on the bus, to restaurants, public parks, or for taking to train in tracking or detection activities. ..

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

But one is for sure, Demoniak behaves, moves and looks like a F 2.

Yes, I agree with you. When I saw him first time I was thinking that he is a VERY wolfish CsW. I was even interested in him as stud dog but... looking in the pedigree I saw that there is something really wrong. Such dog can not be born out of parents listed in the pedigree - the characteristics of Yvanka de New Flame are missing there (it was the time when people started to speak about crosses and I started to believe in it). I do not believe in miracles.

After his puppies were born I knew for sure that he has fake pedigree: the main characteristics of CsW were missing by them... Demoniak can be F1, F2, F3 or F-whatever but two things are sure: he is not a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog and he is not a cross of European Wolf.

[hanninadina]

Margo, I can not go along with you when you refer to the breed standard. In germany Berger de Brie - Briard - breeders changed the behavior of briards too. In France the Briards have to attack when they will be challanged. In germany they have to be calm and are not allowed to attack!

But nobody would say, oh you people you are changing the breed standard!

In germany socity dogs must be not only pet dogs, but dogs like being out of plastic with a battery. When people want them to be dog, it is ok. But when they mostly want them to be cool and calm, they cut them down.

I do not know how to explain in english better. But it will be always a problem, if dogs go immediatly at front. Nobody here in germany want this border military dogs! And therefore animals like Demoniak are very important for the breed. And as I showed you in the picture of Doz and Demoniak, they do look like twins! Here is another one.

I do not believe, that there is any american wolfdog or wolf is in him! And by the way Franky does only own two dogs, Volos and Yarl. Wolweryne is with his son and all other dogs are not in his home. But of course I noticed the offspring of Demoniak and Doz does not look really like csw. I was wondering too. Marvellous wolfdogs, but not like csw.... Maybe that is genetics - or you are right.

[wolfin]

hanninadina

And it makes me smile remembering that you have one of the last F 5 csw..., so why do you have him? Does he have IPO? I remember at Margos place this poor dog, leashed at a tree, being afraid of all the people around. You do not had an eye for the need of your dog! That is a real shame.

I think you mas apologize to me. This dog about who you speak not was ANY my dog. In this year I have only two CSW and this was this horible animals who not runn away but guard a my car and things. You have in mind dog from kennel from what are one your dog too.

[jefta]

hanninadina, have you been on meeting in Pozna this year?

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

I do not know how to explain in english better. But it will be always a problem, if dogs go immediatly at front. Nobody here in germany want this border military dogs!

Nobody say that Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs must be aggressive. Look on breed the standard - here is nothing about agression:

Lively, very active, capable of endurance, docile with quick reactions. Fearless and courageous. Suspicious. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.

Now look on the last sentence - it means you can use them for many types of work. They can make great Rescue Dogs. And Germany is the best example. CsW owners from your country do not make protection work but train their dogs to track lost people. With the French crosses they would be not able to do this.
And there are many possibilities to use CsW.

You can change the way how you will "use" Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. But you can not change their character.

And there are more examples already visible. One of the most winning dogs in CZ and SK last time is a 'walking zombie'. People who are interested in breeding 'show lines" and 'sofa dogs' love him saying that he has great character - very calm and timid (he really behaves like on drugs). People who work with dogs and try to preserve the 'right' character 'hate' him because you can not do with such dog ANYTHING. He is useless as working dog. In the case of rescue work: the lost person would die because the dog will have no mood to look for somebody and if he would - the person would die because the anemic dog will need DAYS to run several kilometres.

And the same I can say about the crosses bred in France. I saw some of those dogs - some were 'zombies', some were scared like Saarloos. Only one showed bound with his owner. The rest was indifferent to everything. They were plants - not dogs.

Originally Posted by hanninadina

And therefore animals like Demoniak are very important for the breed. And as I showed you in the picture of Doz and Demoniak, they do look like twins! Here is another one.

I agree they can be important for THE breed. They can be interesting for THE American Wolfdogs or THE Indian Wolfdogs. I think also THE Saarloos Wolfhond breeders can be happy to have the possibility to use them.
But our breed do not need them. Look - Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs were made by crossing European Wolf (from the Carpathians) and German Shepherd Dog (old DDR lines). NOTHING ELSE.

What is Demoniak? A mongrel. There is a bit of Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. There is also a Wolf(dog) (American? Tundra?). What else? I doubt that Frank&co. used pure American Wolf - I think they took an American Wolfdogs. And you know that American Wolfdogs consist of several breeds. Most of them unknown but in the most cases American breeders mix wolves with Huskies or Malamutes (they do not use GSD).
Do you think that our breed needs mongrels? Christian, there are many mongrels in our animals shelters. Some of them are pretty 'wolfish'. But it is not a reason to use them for mixing with CsW. Because any mix and any mongrel is just an unknown Pandora box.

Originally Posted by hanninadina

I noticed the offspring of Demoniak and Doz does not look really like csw. I was wondering too. Marvellous wolfdogs, but not like csw.... Maybe that is genetics - or you are right.

I'm right. You will see. It is the rule of genetics. Do you remeber the experiment of Konrad Lorenz who crossed Poodles and Jackals? Always the fist generation was pretty similar. First in the next generations there were diverse animals born. It is the same with France - in the first generation(s) of crosses was pretty similar to each other. Now more and more different "breeds" are visible there. We can see dogs which resemble mixes of Husky and GSD. Mixes of White Shepherd and husky. Mixes of American Wolves. Mixes of Mamamute and GSD.
Real Sodom and Gomorrah