Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs-Australia

12-10-2012, 02:54 PM

Yeah.

With eyes I know there are cases of GSDs with amber eyes, but it's rare. I've never seen a WSS with amber eyes, but I'm sure some do. But these cases are few and far between and they're a fault. Most would put it down to weak genetics in that area making the eyes have less pigmentation then they should. But given these cases are so rare, I think it's far more likely the amber eyes in these dogs came from Czw.

Both my male and female were desexed last week, haha. The breeder was responsible and made sure no one bought a pup unless agreeing that they wouldn't breed them with any other dogs, other than another czw if there are more imported in the future.

I think they're pure. The pedigree definitely proves it. But anyone who claims they're not pure, should support that with evidence. And if they have none, then they really should be quite, because if these dogs are proven pure, which I think is a high chance, anyone who claimed they weren't pure, is open to being sued for defamation.

My main point with the lion analogy was to point out that a lion is a lion, it's not a lion because its registered with a particular organisation. It's a lion because of its genetics, and the only way to know that fully, is genetic testing.

Also in answer to your question, the czw here in Aus now definitely haven't damaged anything, I cant speak for the other pups, but I know personally our two dogs create widespread interest in the breed wherever they go.

Ligerwolve2 · 12-10-2012, 03:28 PM

Its not rare at all. Common and considered a minor fault so a dog with pale eyes can still win first place IF they have more going for them. I can say this first hand. I breed GSDs. Amber eyes is not perfect but construction, temp etc is more important.

I wont say the dogs arent pure BUT I think the breeder really should find out for sure. Especially since they advertised them as pure, not as maybe.

It would really go along way.

I think our definition of a responsible breeder are very different. Im glad you have two puppies you love and you want to speak out on their behalf BUT there is lot to be desired here.

I hope they are just inexperienced. From what I understand quite unprepared. So there is a lot to be done and I really hope they do. I really hope they do the right thing.

No breeding without putting in the effort is simply adding to the number of PTS in this country. No I dont think they are putting in the effort especially with screening potential puppies or taking responsibility for the impact they are having on the breed.

Just putting two dogs together and then selling them for that kind of price with no work is NOT responsible. Telling people they should desex unless putting to another CzW even though these have not been concluded pure is not responsible. Its called "backyard breeding".

So perhaps you can tell me, what tests did he have done and with who? What was his program to produce happy puppies and were they microchipped vet checked, vaccinated and wormed before you recieved them? What age did he sell them and the parents what has been done with these?

What is his goal in breeding?

Any breeder worth their salt can answer these.

Actually given the breeder admitted to a dog possibly being a mix and then advertising as pure is liable. Nothing wrong with anyone saying they could be crosses given this admission. Not only that but I believe on that site they specify people advertise as mixes or pure. One must know for sure their dog is pure. Knowing there is a chance its not is false advertising and the company will pull the ad.

You can "think" they are pure but cannot be said for sure and in this country thats a mix.

Have you ever noticed pounds, RSPCA etc always say cross even when its almost certain its not? Do you know why? Because they have and will be taken to court, bad mouthed etc if it turns out otherwise. Unless an animal has the PROPER papers it is not pure but seen as a BYB or cross.

So again its a REALLY good idea for them to do something. Get the dogs recognised with proper papers, DNA test what ever. Untill then these dogs are unfortunately regarded as crosses.

Wouldnt you love to see your dogs papered? Then you can say without ANY doubt they are pure. No one could argue with you!

Again a small amounst of WSS generations ago to most people would make no difference in looks. Absolutely they could be crosses and if I were you Id listen to those who have so much experience. Yes people can be very defensive of the breed and annoy the heck out of you but you should still be listening.

Why I brought lions back up as yes they are lions (although you may not be able to tell what kind of lions without DNA) but NO zoo would EVER breed UNTILL DNA had been done. No breeder in doubt should EVER breed untill they know for sure. The number one reason being they would want to know the genetic history health wise.

12-10-2012, 11:19 PM

The dogs are pure. As I've said, the pedigree shows it. Genetic testing? Does every other breeder do genetic testing? Why should these dogs have DNA tests, when they've got a pedigree that shows they're pure, just like any other pure czw has. I don't know why you still put "pure" in quotes in reference to these dogs, when they've got a pedigree.

"Im glad you have two puppies you love and you want to speak out on their behalf BUT there is lot to be desired here." What do you mean by that?

The breeder said MAYBE the male was a mix, but that was only to the people on these forums after they'd being saying they were mixes. There is no reason to suggest the male is a mix. I've seen him and he's a beautiful example of the breed.

As I've said time and time again. I'm not going to listen to anyone unless they have proof. I don't care what experience they have without proof they're points are meaningless. It's very arrogant of them to say that someone's dogs aren't pure without proof. They're also setting themselves up well to be sued if these dogs are pure.

12-10-2012, 11:51 PM

I remember when I was getting my pups, I noticed more slanderous talk about them on the DOL forums, where you talked about your wolfdog.

"The people that were breeding them are pretty private about them and dont sell to the public. Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks. Its not a official breed. Czechoslovakian Shepherds was the term they were using. Many years have passed though so I have no idea what they are doing now"

Firstly, "Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks" CzW weren't bred for looks either.

The breeder was very private? That doesn't sound very legitimate to me. Why were they so private? Were they even registered? Did they have pedigrees?

But then again pedigrees to show they're "pure" wouldn't even matter anyway as there is no such thing as a Czechoslovakian Shepherd.

Also from what I can gather you said they were Wolfdogs, but their name was Czechoslovakian Shepherd? A shepherd and a wolfdog are two different things.

Seems to me like nothing but a scam. I wonder what your definition of "responsible breeder" is...

Ligerwolve2 · 12-11-2012, 12:40 PM

Why dont you answer my questions first?

Second, nice lol. Ok Im not going to give out sensitive information of where my dog came from but yes she is what people refer to as a wolfdog. As in a breed that was a cross of wolf to GSD. They have been breeding for nearly as long as the CzW but for working dogs. You are aware that there is a working dog register here in Australia?

Yes they are very responsible. They have to be. More responsible than most breeders and certainly put in more effort than the breeder of your pups I can assure you. Careful genetic testing was carried out.

You wont find anything about them online by the way. I wouldnt bother. Whether you believe me or not is besides the point. You know there is a term for people who defend their own actions by redirecting. My dog isnt in question. My dog was never bred from EVER. I never claimed her to be anything then what she is. I have her papers that detail everything but no I wont share them with you

I dont need to. Im not breeding.

If you would like to ask about the GSDs I do breed go ahead.

Slander LOL. You keep throwing that around but you cant take some one to court over repeating what you said publicly. The breeder said they COULD be crosses. The breeder said that and has not said otherwise. So yes they could be pure but they may not be.

I think you have 0 understanding of breeding. Or of the sheer number of dogs PTS every single day. One stat says 20, 000 animals. A responsible person cares about where the pups end up. A responsible person cares about the dogs they breed and the suffering an animal can go through because of genetic disorders.

Yeah you should listen because all you have demonstrated so far is that you dont care where they came from only that you got what YOU wanted NOW. Your dogs do not have papers. You cannot say they are CzWs for sure. Only cross. Thats what happens when you rush and put your desires above the dogs you claim to love. No better than buying a pup in a pet shop.

If the dogs are pedigree where are the papers? From what I understand there are non.

There is alot to be desired and I suggest you go read DOL a bit more. I dare you to go there and ask the same question LOL. Ive tried to be nice to you but what ever

12-11-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originariamente inviata da Ligerwolve2

Why dont you answer my questions first?

Second, nice lol. Ok Im not going to give out sensitive information of where my dog came from but yes she is what people refer to as a wolfdog. As in a breed that was a cross of wolf to GSD. They have been breeding for nearly as long as the CzW but for working dogs. You are aware that there is a working dog register here in Australia?

Yes they are very responsible. They have to be. More responsible than most breeders and certainly put in more effort than the breeder of your pups I can assure you. Careful genetic testing was carried out.

You wont find anything about them online by the way. I wouldnt bother. Whether you believe me or not is besides the point. You know there is a term for people who defend their own actions by redirecting. My dog isnt in question. My dog was never bred from EVER. I never claimed her to be anything then what she is. I have her papers that detail everything but no I wont share them with you

I dont need to. Im not breeding.

If you would like to ask about the GSDs I do breed go ahead.

Slander LOL. You keep throwing that around but you cant take some one to court over repeating what you said publicly. The breeder said they COULD be crosses. The breeder said that and has not said otherwise. So yes they could be pure but they may not be.

I think you have 0 understanding of breeding. Or of the sheer number of dogs PTS every single day. One stat says 20, 000 animals. A responsible person cares about where the pups end up. A responsible person cares about the dogs they breed and the suffering an animal can go through because of genetic disorders.

Yeah you should listen because all you have demonstrated so far is that you dont care where they came from only that you got what YOU wanted NOW. Your dogs do not have papers. You cannot say they are CzWs for sure. Only cross. Thats what happens when you rush and put your desires above the dogs you claim to love. No better than buying a pup in a pet shop.

If the dogs are pedigree where are the papers? From what I understand there are non.

There is alot to be desired and I suggest you go read DOL a bit more. I dare you to go there and ask the same question LOL. Ive tried to be nice to you but what ever

It's ravens spirit in Germany that can sue as they've been publically accused of fraud and mixing by some people on this thread WITHOUT EVIDENCE.

My dogs don't have papers? Yes they do. How would you know anyway. The info has even been posted onto the wolfdog database.

Also your so called "wolfdog"/"czechoslovakian shepherd" is nothing but deception. I'm experienced with these so called Czech shepherds, all they are is German shepherds, probably being exported out of Czech Republic or Slovakia. I don't know how you think they have foundation Czw stock in them, were breeders of them supposed to have gotten the stock from the military? If its not lies it wouldn't be so private. There is nothing "top secret" about dog breeding unless you're trying to hide something.

I find it very arrogant of you to constantly question me. When I've provided photos, I've provided links to the pedigree and explained myself. You however claim to have owned some possible mix or just normal German shepherd, called it a wolfdog, said the name was a czechoslovakian shepherd (which doesn't even exist) and then won't even show pictures, or tell any information about them because its "private". Well making it so very "private" seems like a good way to not let people know about yours or the breeders lies.

Also I understand you enquired about owning one of these Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and it never went through? I guess the breeder was just selecting for responsible owners.

Ligerwolve2 · 12-11-2012, 01:57 PM

Simply because this thread is about CzWs and breeding them in Australia. I do not have one or have any to breed.

You havent answered a single question of mine.

What you have as I understand it is a printed out pedigree created on the computer of the breeder? Yes or no?

Do you have the ACTUAL papers. Not peices of paper. Because there are non registered here. So your puppies cannot have pedigree papers. I would geniunely like to know if the the parents do. Honestly Id like to but considering neither you or the breeder have shown this I dont know what you expect people to think?

I never said she was a Czech German Shepherd. They are just a particular line of GSD - who you may not know this but they too were actually called Alsation wolfdog im Australia lol. So even if she was just a GSD yes I could call her a wolfdog and be correct lol. I have always said I loved my beautiful wolfdog (RIP) and that I wanted a papered CzW. Because they are SIMILAR to her and the closest I will ever get to anything like her. I am doing the right thing. Are you?

When did you ask for a photo?

What does my dog have to do with breeding CzWs in Australia???

Ive been nothing but co-operative with your questions how about you be a bit forthcoming and honest and try the same.

12-10-2012, 02:54 PM	#1
Wolves Guest Messaggi: n/a	Yeah. With eyes I know there are cases of GSDs with amber eyes, but it's rare. I've never seen a WSS with amber eyes, but I'm sure some do. But these cases are few and far between and they're a fault. Most would put it down to weak genetics in that area making the eyes have less pigmentation then they should. But given these cases are so rare, I think it's far more likely the amber eyes in these dogs came from Czw. Both my male and female were desexed last week, haha. The breeder was responsible and made sure no one bought a pup unless agreeing that they wouldn't breed them with any other dogs, other than another czw if there are more imported in the future. I think they're pure. The pedigree definitely proves it. But anyone who claims they're not pure, should support that with evidence. And if they have none, then they really should be quite, because if these dogs are proven pure, which I think is a high chance, anyone who claimed they weren't pure, is open to being sued for defamation. My main point with the lion analogy was to point out that a lion is a lion, it's not a lion because its registered with a particular organisation. It's a lion because of its genetics, and the only way to know that fully, is genetic testing. Also in answer to your question, the czw here in Aus now definitely haven't damaged anything, I cant speak for the other pups, but I know personally our two dogs create widespread interest in the breed wherever they go. Ultima modifica di Wolves : 12-10-2012 a 03:03 PM

12-10-2012, 11:19 PM	#3
Wolves Guest Messaggi: n/a	The dogs are pure. As I've said, the pedigree shows it. Genetic testing? Does every other breeder do genetic testing? Why should these dogs have DNA tests, when they've got a pedigree that shows they're pure, just like any other pure czw has. I don't know why you still put "pure" in quotes in reference to these dogs, when they've got a pedigree. "Im glad you have two puppies you love and you want to speak out on their behalf BUT there is lot to be desired here." What do you mean by that? The breeder said MAYBE the male was a mix, but that was only to the people on these forums after they'd being saying they were mixes. There is no reason to suggest the male is a mix. I've seen him and he's a beautiful example of the breed. As I've said time and time again. I'm not going to listen to anyone unless they have proof. I don't care what experience they have without proof they're points are meaningless. It's very arrogant of them to say that someone's dogs aren't pure without proof. They're also setting themselves up well to be sued if these dogs are pure. Ultima modifica di Wolves : 12-11-2012 a 12:15 AM

12-10-2012, 11:51 PM	#4
Wolves Guest Messaggi: n/a	I remember when I was getting my pups, I noticed more slanderous talk about them on the DOL forums, where you talked about your wolfdog. "The people that were breeding them are pretty private about them and dont sell to the public. Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks. Its not a official breed. Czechoslovakian Shepherds was the term they were using. Many years have passed though so I have no idea what they are doing now" Firstly, "Basically they used some of the foundation dogs for the CzW but breed for temperament and not looks" CzW weren't bred for looks either. The breeder was very private? That doesn't sound very legitimate to me. Why were they so private? Were they even registered? Did they have pedigrees? But then again pedigrees to show they're "pure" wouldn't even matter anyway as there is no such thing as a Czechoslovakian Shepherd. Also from what I can gather you said they were Wolfdogs, but their name was Czechoslovakian Shepherd? A shepherd and a wolfdog are two different things. Seems to me like nothing but a scam. I wonder what your definition of "responsible breeder" is... Ultima modifica di Wolves : 12-11-2012 a 12:15 AM

12-10-2012, 03:28 PM	#2
Ligerwolve2 Junior Member Registrato dal: Oct 2010 Messaggi: 57	Its not rare at all. Common and considered a minor fault so a dog with pale eyes can still win first place IF they have more going for them. I can say this first hand. I breed GSDs. Amber eyes is not perfect but construction, temp etc is more important. I wont say the dogs arent pure BUT I think the breeder really should find out for sure. Especially since they advertised them as pure, not as maybe. It would really go along way. I think our definition of a responsible breeder are very different. Im glad you have two puppies you love and you want to speak out on their behalf BUT there is lot to be desired here. I hope they are just inexperienced. From what I understand quite unprepared. So there is a lot to be done and I really hope they do. I really hope they do the right thing. No breeding without putting in the effort is simply adding to the number of PTS in this country. No I dont think they are putting in the effort especially with screening potential puppies or taking responsibility for the impact they are having on the breed. Just putting two dogs together and then selling them for that kind of price with no work is NOT responsible. Telling people they should desex unless putting to another CzW even though these have not been concluded pure is not responsible. Its called "backyard breeding". So perhaps you can tell me, what tests did he have done and with who? What was his program to produce happy puppies and were they microchipped vet checked, vaccinated and wormed before you recieved them? What age did he sell them and the parents what has been done with these? What is his goal in breeding? Any breeder worth their salt can answer these. Actually given the breeder admitted to a dog possibly being a mix and then advertising as pure is liable. Nothing wrong with anyone saying they could be crosses given this admission. Not only that but I believe on that site they specify people advertise as mixes or pure. One must know for sure their dog is pure. Knowing there is a chance its not is false advertising and the company will pull the ad. You can "think" they are pure but cannot be said for sure and in this country thats a mix. Have you ever noticed pounds, RSPCA etc always say cross even when its almost certain its not? Do you know why? Because they have and will be taken to court, bad mouthed etc if it turns out otherwise. Unless an animal has the PROPER papers it is not pure but seen as a BYB or cross. So again its a REALLY good idea for them to do something. Get the dogs recognised with proper papers, DNA test what ever. Untill then these dogs are unfortunately regarded as crosses. Wouldnt you love to see your dogs papered? Then you can say without ANY doubt they are pure. No one could argue with you! Again a small amounst of WSS generations ago to most people would make no difference in looks. Absolutely they could be crosses and if I were you Id listen to those who have so much experience. Yes people can be very defensive of the breed and annoy the heck out of you but you should still be listening. Why I brought lions back up as yes they are lions (although you may not be able to tell what kind of lions without DNA) but NO zoo would EVER breed UNTILL DNA had been done. No breeder in doubt should EVER breed untill they know for sure. The number one reason being they would want to know the genetic history health wise.

12-11-2012, 12:40 PM	#5
Ligerwolve2 Junior Member Registrato dal: Oct 2010 Messaggi: 57	Why dont you answer my questions first? Second, nice lol. Ok Im not going to give out sensitive information of where my dog came from but yes she is what people refer to as a wolfdog. As in a breed that was a cross of wolf to GSD. They have been breeding for nearly as long as the CzW but for working dogs. You are aware that there is a working dog register here in Australia? Yes they are very responsible. They have to be. More responsible than most breeders and certainly put in more effort than the breeder of your pups I can assure you. Careful genetic testing was carried out. You wont find anything about them online by the way. I wouldnt bother. Whether you believe me or not is besides the point. You know there is a term for people who defend their own actions by redirecting. My dog isnt in question. My dog was never bred from EVER. I never claimed her to be anything then what she is. I have her papers that detail everything but no I wont share them with you I dont need to. Im not breeding. If you would like to ask about the GSDs I do breed go ahead. Slander LOL. You keep throwing that around but you cant take some one to court over repeating what you said publicly. The breeder said they COULD be crosses. The breeder said that and has not said otherwise. So yes they could be pure but they may not be. I think you have 0 understanding of breeding. Or of the sheer number of dogs PTS every single day. One stat says 20, 000 animals. A responsible person cares about where the pups end up. A responsible person cares about the dogs they breed and the suffering an animal can go through because of genetic disorders. Yeah you should listen because all you have demonstrated so far is that you dont care where they came from only that you got what YOU wanted NOW. Your dogs do not have papers. You cannot say they are CzWs for sure. Only cross. Thats what happens when you rush and put your desires above the dogs you claim to love. No better than buying a pup in a pet shop. If the dogs are pedigree where are the papers? From what I understand there are non. There is alot to be desired and I suggest you go read DOL a bit more. I dare you to go there and ask the same question LOL. Ive tried to be nice to you but what ever

12-11-2012, 01:57 PM	#7
Ligerwolve2 Junior Member Registrato dal: Oct 2010 Messaggi: 57	Simply because this thread is about CzWs and breeding them in Australia. I do not have one or have any to breed. You havent answered a single question of mine. What you have as I understand it is a printed out pedigree created on the computer of the breeder? Yes or no? Do you have the ACTUAL papers. Not peices of paper. Because there are non registered here. So your puppies cannot have pedigree papers. I would geniunely like to know if the the parents do. Honestly Id like to but considering neither you or the breeder have shown this I dont know what you expect people to think? I never said she was a Czech German Shepherd. They are just a particular line of GSD - who you may not know this but they too were actually called Alsation wolfdog im Australia lol. So even if she was just a GSD yes I could call her a wolfdog and be correct lol. I have always said I loved my beautiful wolfdog (RIP) and that I wanted a papered CzW. Because they are SIMILAR to her and the closest I will ever get to anything like her. I am doing the right thing. Are you? When did you ask for a photo? What does my dog have to do with breeding CzWs in Australia??? Ive been nothing but co-operative with your questions how about you be a bit forthcoming and honest and try the same.