Wilk - jestem sobie bezpapierak, ale kochany jak kazdy CzW

[woland77]

Is possible to resume on english the message where you spoke about me? Thank's!!!

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by woland

Is possible to resume on english the message where you spoke about me? Thank's!!!

Rona asked what is your connection with Wilk (aka Hamlet). I answered that only Italian owner can register a dog in LIR. And it is why you were listed as owner od Hamlet.

[Rona]

Margo, myślę, że Twój post wiele wyjaśnił.

[woland77]

Ok, thank Margo!!! Can you resume for me the problem about Wilk in this thread?

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by woland

Can you resume for me the problem about Wilk in this thread?

I added information about Wilk (Hamlet) to the database. He appeared there first now and some people were surprised - they didn't knew it is an "old story". They suggested Shaluka lied that he is still in Poland and in the truth she "sold" him to Italy...

But in fact the story is about the missing information about Wilk. After he was given away (since one year) he "dissapeared" (no info, no photos). And it it is what's people discuss at the moment...

[Nebulosa]

I know its an old topic wich pop time to time, people may wonder why it happen, if not I hope I will let it clear here.
So, first of all I would like to excuse myself for post in English at Polish forum, my Polish is not good enough for writte, but I can already understand somethings.

Originally Posted by Nebulosa from English Forum last year

I had post it on the Milo's 13 birthday topic opened by Shaluka at this forum.
So, I'm looking for informations about Wilk/Hamlet --- Radov Dvor---, dog that as far as I know was rescued by Shaluka, the owner of Wilczy Duch kennel, and soon after had to find another owner, after it no more informations about him or his whereabouts was known, no photos, no datas, absolutelly nothing, seeking for informations about him I received a phone number of his suposed owner, phone which never worked, also I listened some rumors about he being euthanasied, lose and so on.
Seems that not only I have interess in know more about this dog, but more people...
So I wondered, what happened with this dog? Someone have informations about?

This were a topic I opened in English forum, after see that Shaluka opened a topic about Milo's Birthday:
Someone may ask here why does people had such interest in Wilk while before Shaluka "save his life" nobody cared for him, its simple, mostly of owners and breeders does not knew about his existence before this topic and only because that no one talked or searched about him before.
I know little bit about Rodomir as I have dog from him, I have a small idea about the condition that his dogs lives because I had pick up my dog personaly with him, as a breeder I know something about the lines of his dogs and have my own toughs about it.

As everyone knows already, Wilk is a very close inbreeded dog, I mean here that he is not only a mere "inbreeding in Iran", if we does not consider the genetical diference between full brothers as Hexa and Ciba Zemplinska Oblast' are, and threat the full brothers like one dog only, Hron will be also a mate between two half brothers like Wilk in first sight.
Wilk is a inbreed between half brothers having his father already coming from a inbreed, he is more close than a common half brothers mate.
Also his bloodline is not such common in CzW breeding being very interesting to be used.

Its not new that CzW have a very small genetic pool, also that closing lines in inbreeding will set good characters as bad ones, principaly when we remember about poligenic recessive traits that can simply pop in inbreeded litters, traits that can increase the number of unviable fetus and then cause a small number of pups born as well as weak pups and defectives, that often comes to die within the first days.

The conditions of Rodomir kennels would not allow weak or defective pups to survive long time and it also can explain why some of his litters were such small, if Wilk had such problems surely he would not have survived living at such conditions, looking at the first photo of this topic we have a young dog, I would bet about 7 months, so that means his pup and youth time were passed with Rodomir.

That makes Wilk such special and interesting dog, he is not only a inbreeding in a not common line as he had almost survived at what we could call "natural selection", something that some pressupposed healty litters would not be able to survive.
Surely Wilk would be a interesting dog to be used in breeding after we check his hips and elbows results, as inbreeding in not common line, with such wolfish appearence he could be used for open and refreash the line of some dogs in almost outcrossings, without such huge loss of wolfish characteristics, what we can say that's pretty common to happen sometimes.

When I saw this topic I were so happy that Wilk had fall in the hands of one breeder, even if he does not have pedigree, for me it would not be difficult to get as the rules of our club are different, and with DNA test and the pedigree of the mother I would be able to do his pedigree as if he were born here, I talked with Shaluka by Skype saying her about this possibility, I received a nice reply that what she most cares for was Wilk happiness and finally a decent definitive home for him, where he could have a good life and peace, pedigree does not matter, maybe in future tough about it, I found it a nice attitud.

To my amazement reading Polish forum for traine the language, I discouvered months after it that he has been donate to someone else, a policeman, no photos, no datas, I asked for Daiva the number of the new owner, as she had received it in private, I tried to phone and nothing.
Reading her blog and reading better this forum I understood that the main problem was how dagerous Wilk could be for her incoming child also about lack of time for work with him, but while she was giving up on Wilk she were bringing Kala, a new dog?!
A spark of memorie makes me remind when I asked her about the character of Wilk, about possible problems and the reply I received was something like "I'm also behaviourist", how could a behaviourist give up a problematic dog because it was supposed a danger for her child?

Reading a italian forum I saw he being called Hamlet, well to tell the truth I get really chocked after it, I've read the rules for make the pure breed certified in Italy, and seems its such a work for who does not live there, that make it looks like if as it was not possible to make the pedigree in a easy way, she give up and so discarded the dog with someone else, disappearig with him.

I already followed several cases of adopted addult dogs that few months after the adoption disappeared, mostly of them soon we discouvered were put for sleep by the pressupposed "new owner" or simply were abandoned in somewhere, unfortunately, for all I can read seems that the history repeated, but this time we lost a dog wich could contribute for the breed.
Its even funny because I've also heard rumors about Wilk had been put for sleep, but are only rumors still.

Today I discouvered that after Shaluka had someone else interested in adopt Wilk if she choices to not stay with him, looks like she choice to addopt him, I wonder, why? For disappear with him, maybe kill him?
I wonder if had people ever though about the fact, that this dog had survived all this way for someone with child tough play with his life, show itself as "hero" in a public forum and after end with him, at least it looks like it.

Sorry, but it does not make sense at all, but for me it shows a more deep problem... you're not an "mere" owner, but a breeder.

Shaluka, you were not able to solve the problem of Wilk and disappeared with him with such weak excuse, as breeder you should keep in mind that you're responsible for every dog you put in this world, and that its not rare owners not be able to keep a more difficult animals and give it back to the breeder when they're addult and really problematic because of some mistakes made by them, what would you do? give up on this addult problematic dog because it could be a dangerous for your child? because you have no time? maybe put him for sleep and simply dont give any news about him for who're interested, after all, such news would burn your reputation as breeder, right? So better hides the face in the sand like a Ostrich and let all pass.

But I also wonder how could you as breeder does not have idea about genetic, selection and the line of the breed you supposedly breed at the point to simply disappear with a dog like Wilk? Maybe you were so selfish that simpy forget that other people could be interested in use Wilk futurely.

You had no time so give up a dog while pick up another two.
You fear for a possible accident with an "problematic dog" while you breeding.
Its almost a paradox
Sorry, but dogs are not toys.

[Rona]

Paula, nie licz, że dostaniesz odpowiedź; nie ta bajka, nie ten styl...

[maria]

Wilk się odnalazł. W lesie. Szuka domu: https://www.facebook.com/canta2003/p...88917651168461

[Wonderfull Wolf ES]

Originally Posted by maria

Wilk się odnalazł. W lesie. Szuka domu: https://www.facebook.com/canta2003/p...88917651168461

nie mam FB, można to info zobaczyć bez posiadania konta?

[dorotka_z]

Paweł, cytuję ogłoszenie z 21 października:

"Proszę o pomoc !!!

Biedak od miesiąca szwendał się po lesie i tylko zawziętość i pomoc osób trzecich spowodowała że udało mi się go złapać.
Jego stan nie jest dobry. Jest prawdopodobnie po uderzeniu auta co widać do niedowładzie tylnej prawej nogi. Stan skóry też wymaga leczenia. Poza tym jest silnym
bez agresji i nieufnym psem który potrzebuje pomocy.
Ja nie jestem w stanie go zatrzymać i jako niepoprawna optymistka liczę na szczęśliwe
zakończenie jego historii.
Nie będę ukrywać że koszta jego leczenia to dla mnie duży ciężar.
Proszę o udostępnienie tego linku."

i wczorajsze:

"Dziś drugi dzień pobytu wilczka u mnie i nie obeszło się bez ekscesów.
Była próba zaproszenia do auta z zamiarem wycieczki do weterynarza, niestety nie udana.Były trzy ucieczki ale też trzy powroty.
Chce też bardzo podziękować za każdy telefon, za każde zainteresowanie.
Razem na pewno uda nam się aby jego historia szczęśliwie się zakończyła. "

Udało się odczytać chip i okazało się, ze to Wilk vs Hamlet

[maria]

Originally Posted by Wonderfull Wolf ES

nie mam FB, można to info zobaczyć bez posiadania konta?

może mi się uda dodać w innej formie...

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/attachm...1&d=1382557254

został zidentyfikowany jako Hamlet Radov Dvor

[Wonderfull Wolf ES]

dzięki Wam serdeczne! a wiadomo dokąd w Polsce zawędrował?

[avgrunn]

Patrzyków, woj, łódzkie powiat pajeczanski, to jest okolo 120km od Łodzi

[maria]

Originally Posted by shaluka

podpisalismy odpowiednia umowe co do niego, zebym wiedziala ze nei bedzie mial zadnych dzieciaczkow, czy by bylo wiadomo co sie z nim dzieje i w razie czego odrazu ma wrocic do mnie itd.

No to ma okazję wrócić, bo właśnie szuka domu. A jego dzieciaczki będziemy znajdować przez kolejne lata w schroniskach.

Nie ma to jak superhodowca, który sprowadza bezpapierowe psy, puszcza je w obieg, a na końcu skutkuje to jego mnożeniem się z kundelkami bez żadnej kontroli i poszerzaniem puli bezdomnych wilczakopodobnych mixów.

[avgrunn]

Jak dla mnie najlepiej by go bylo wykastrowac i znalezc mu dobry dom

[Emi]

Co za okropna historia, całościowo Oby finał był lepszy...

[MagdaW]

Originally Posted by avgrunn

Jak dla mnie najlepiej by go bylo wykastrowac i znalezc mu dobry dom

Odwrotnie najlepiej znaleźć dobry dom i niech to przyszły właściciel podejmie decyzje czy chce go kastrować.

[avgrunn]

Jesli da sie znalezc dom z daleka od hodowlanych cyrkow to jak najbardziej masz racje

[MagdaW]

Dokładnie, dobry dom czyli nie u hodofców.

[maria]

Originally Posted by MagdaW

Odwrotnie najlepiej znaleźć dobry dom i niech to przyszły właściciel podejmie decyzje czy chce go kastrować.

Myślisz, że trafi do kogoś, kto ma radochę patrzenia jak psy szczają z podniesioną nogą na cokolwiek i gdziekolwiek, i dlatego ten ktoś nie będzie chciał wykastrowanego psa?
Pies się włóczył i jest prawdopodobne, że może mieć tendencje do włóczęgostwa. Decyzja o niekastrowaniu takiego psa to najgłupsza z decyzji, i ktos, kogo marzeniem jest mieć tego psa w formie niewykastrowanej, nie powinien być jego właścicielem. Bo kim jest człowiek niechcący kastracji psa, który nie powinien być rozmnażany?
Będzie albo pseudohodowcą liczącym na tanie mioty, albo niereformowalnym człowiekiem starej daty, który uważa kastrację za kaleczenie psa, lub że pies ma sobie poużywać jak Pan Bóg przykazał.
Nikt normalny nie chce by jego pies uciekał z powodu cieczek naokoło, by sikał po meblach, ogródku, autach, itp, by stwarzał ryzyko zapłodnienia innych psów w domu, by nie dało sie z nim iść na spacer normalnie, tylko skokami od słupka do krzaczka, a jeżeli ten ktoś uważa, że lepiej mieć tego psa niekastrowanego, to radzę się dobrze zastanowić, czy to jest odpowiednia osoba do zajmowania się tym psem. On już miał kilku włascicieli, wrogów kastracji, i na dobre mu to nie wyszło.
Nawet dobrze byłoby, gdybyśmy się złożyli na jego kastrację, bo przecież nie możemy tym obarczać osoby, która go przygarneła i już ponosi koszty jego leczenia.