Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

[yukidomari]

Zitat von Rona

I wonder if sending many letters to their local KC AND Hungarian KC AND FCI by worried owners/breeders would help make them act... If one person posts, it may be disregarded, but if a few hundered affected owners/breeders wrote and requested action and official DNA checking? Could they keep ignoring them?

Just an idea, maybe naive...

OK, I'm in! I will send a letter worded as officially and professionally as I can. Even if it makes no difference, I know I will have tried as much as I could! Let's spread the idea, no?

[Rona]

Maybe Lorry should start, as she brought this issue up and attempted first to act. Ideally she would publish an official statement with photos of the affected (untipical) dogs on her website (I know she doesn't like WD ), so that the owners could have something to refer to in their letters and petitions.

Lorry, if you do it I hope people will at least try to help you solve your "riddle", and ... chapeaux bas.

[Shadowlands]

Zitat von Rona

I wonder if sending many letters to their local KC AND Hungarian KC AND FCI by worried owners/breeders would help make them act... If one person posts, it may be disregarded, but if a few hundered affected owners/breeders wrote and requested action and official DNA checking? Could they keep ignoring them?

Just an idea, maybe naive...

I, too, am in... it doesn't only need to be afected owners/breeders, all of us who love the breed and want to know that the pedigrees mean something should get involved. We all need an end to this problem and Galiba's DNA is the only sure way to get it. Personal appeals have fallen on deaf ears so lets petition the KC's and FCI.

[Lorry - MLS]

Zitat von Norky

what many people (including me) only dream of.

Un rêve d'avoir un chien de l'affixe Crying Wolf ?
Mais de qui se moque-t-on à la fin !....

A dream of have an dog comming from Crying Wolf?
But what a joke it is!

Je ne vois pas en quoi c'est un rêve d'avoir acheté 3 chiens, dont on à la preuve incontestable qu'il y a eu des croisements dans les lignées, sans pour autant savoir avec certitude à quel niveau exact de la lignée ... ....

I dont see in what is a dream to have bought 3 dogs which have an incontestable proof that mixages happened by their lines, without being sure about in which level of their lines it happened...

Je ne vois pas comme quoi c'est un rêve de devoir stériliser

I dont see how can it be an dream, of have to neuter such dogs

Sibir Crying Wolf (parceque son père est Galiba et que je ne suis pas sûre, que ce soit réellement Galiba)

Sibir Crying Wolf (because his father is Galiba and i'm not sure that it was really Galiba who covered)


Rambo Crying Wolf (parceque son père est ce même Galiba, et que le doute s'est installé dans mon esprit .... Est ce Galiba le Père ?

Rambo Crying Wolf (because his father is this same Galiba, and which doubts has settle in my mind... Is really Galiba the father?)

Thalia Crying Wolf, parceque, c'est avec le mariage avec Sibir que le roux est sorti et que là aussi, je suis incapble de savoir AVEC CERTITUDE ADN, si l'apport de Saarloos, ne pourrait pas venir également du côté de Thalia ....??

Thalia Crying Wolf, because was on its mating with Sibir that the forest-brown dogs appeared, and im incapable of being sure if in its DNA had the introduction of Saarloos, can it comes also by the side of Thalia?

De même, tous les chiens de mon cheptel qui sont des descendants directs de ces 3 chiens, que je n'ose plus utiliser, tellement j'ai la hantise de ressortir du roux ....

In the same way, I dont dare to use any of all my dogs who are direct descendants of these 3 dogs, such is my fear of have forest-brown dogs.

Cerise sur le gateau, je ne vois pas comme quoi c'est un rêve que ces mêmes chiens soient également DM/DM

I dont see how could it be an dream, as these same dogs are also DM/DM

Un rêve dites vous ?
Pour moi c'est tout simplement un CAUCHEMARD !

You said it's a dream, isn't it?
For me it's simply an nightmare!


Un petit message à l'attention de la propriétaire de Galiba :
An quickly message to the owner of Galiba:

Vous êtes vétérinaire parait il ???? un test ADN de votre chien est donc encore plus aisé à pratiquer pour vous que n'importe quel particulier ....
Je ne comprends pas votre obstination à continuer d'accepter de fermer les yeux et de refuser de faire ce test !
Comme je l'ai déjà proposé à l'éleveuse de votre chien, je suis prête à prendre en charge financière les frais de ce test !

Seems you're an veterinary, isn't it? An DNA test of your dog is even more easy to do than any other owner.
I cant understand your determination of keep with your eyes closed and refusing to do such test!
As I've already offered to the breeder of your dog, im willing to pay the costs for you do this test!

Que disent vos yeux le matin quand vous vous brossez les dents devant votre miroir ???
Votre silence complice n'est pas digne du métier que vous avez choisi d'exercer !

What say your conscience at morning when you brush your teeth in the front of a mirror?
Your silence is unworthy of the profession you have chosen to exercise!

SHAME ON YOU !

[Lorry - MLS]

Zitat von Rona

Maybe Lorry should start, as she brought this issue up and attempted first to act. Ideally she would publish an official statement with photos of the affected (untipical) dogs on her website .

Mais je l'ai fait déjà depuis longtemps ! J'ai clairement expliqué la situation, dans la rubrique consanguinité de mon Site hébergé chez "Chiens de France " c'est d'ailleurs directement sur mon Site que M. Ribouet est venu prendre une photo, sans mon autorisation, pour la mettre sur le Forum de WD !

But I've already done it long ago! I've clearly explained the situation under the title "Consanguinité" at my webpage hosted by "Chiens de France". It was also direct from my Webpage that M. Riboulet had took the photo -without my authorization- to add at wolfdog.org forum!

Zitat von Rona

(I know she doesn't like WD )

Plus exactement je n'aime pas les mensonges continuels que WD diffusent contre moi, sur des portées prétendument toutes MIX, quand ils ne savent pas ...ils notent MIX et point barre !
A sa façon de faire, WD est aussi menteur que l'élevage Crying Wolf !

Precisely, I do not like the lies that WD keep spreading against me, about the litters be all supposed mixes when they dont know, they put "MIX" and point bar(?) !
In this way Wd is also a liar about the breeding Crying Wolf!

[Margo]

Zitat von Priska182

But, I'm still wondering... Did DNA test have been done to prove that the father is not Crying wolf Merlin? Or did the breeder admit that the real father of this litter is an American Wolfdog?

Zitat von Priska182

I totally agree with you Saschia, but we're pointing with the finger on a lot of dogs without real proof...

No, no.... It was written somewhere here - these are the words of the owner of Uncas who told that the French breeder came and covered his CsW female with Unkas.
He is very proud that puppies of Unkas (here it was about C'Pouchka and C'Kinay) win so much at shows.....

What can be more done in an OFFICIAL DNA test which will show the truth. But so far there are no news from France IF and WHEN it will be done.
Something must be done it such case because such behavior is breaking of the FCI rules which all countries must follow...

[Rona]

Zitat von Lorry - MLS

Mais je l'ai fait déjà depuis longtemps ! J'ai clairement expliqué la situation, dans la rubrique consanguinité de mon Site hébergé chez "Chiens de France " c'est d'ailleurs directement sur mon Site que M. Ribouet est venu prendre une photo, sans mon autorisation, pour la mettre sur le Forum de WD !

Sorry, but I can't find it on your webpage, my French is as bad as your English Could you provide a link, please?

Just to be on the safe side, I'd like to ask you formally: do you agree that forum members, who decide to back your case up and write petitions to kynological institutons, could use the link to your webpage with the relevant article in their letters and e-mails? Can you guarantee the article will not disappear in the near future, lets say, 6 months?

Neither I, nor anybody else wants to do anything against your will or put you in a situation you would not like to be. Writing takes time, so it'd be a shame if people's enthusiasm was later criticized and energy wasted.

So please, give us a plain and clear answer to the above question, so that we know where we stand.

[Priska182]

Zitat von Margo

No, no.... It was written somewhere here - these are the words of the owner of Uncas who told that the French breeder came and covered his CsW female with Unkas.
He is very proud that puppies of Unkas (here it was about C'Pouchka and C'Kinay) win so much at shows.....

What can be more done in an OFFICIAL DNA test which will show the truth. But so far there are no news from France IF and WHEN it will be done.
Something must be done it such case because such behavior is breaking of the FCI rules which all countries must follow...

Thanks Margo, so if now a dog is tag as a Mix, it's because there is real proof about it...
I really hope everything will find an end soon :s

[Priska182]

Sorry, I have probably forgotten something... Why are we always speaking about Galiba despite the fact that Mona z Krotkovského dvora CS is the common ancestor between Thalia and Sibir

[saschia]

Zitat von Priska182

Sorry, I have probably forgotten something... Why are we always speaking about Galiba despite the fact that Mona z Krotkovského dvora CS is the common ancestor between Thalia and Sibir

Not only Mona z Krotkovskeho dvora, but also Fallko Kollarov dvor. The problem is that when those two dogs were born, there were no (= 0) saarloos wolfdogs in Slovakia. Those two cannot be mixes of SW therefore (and also other reasons, but I wrote about them in different forum).

[yukidomari]

I'm am a bit confused as to which dogs would be helpful to resolve this problem.

There are a lot of names mentioned on the threads, such as Galiba but then some others saying it is not only Galiba but perhaps some litters.

Can someone make a list of the dogs or litters that could be used to end this mystery?

[Shadowlands]

Zitat von yukidomari

I'm am a bit confused as to which dogs would be helpful to resolve this problem.

There are a lot of names mentioned on the threads, such as Galiba but then some others saying it is not only Galiba but perhaps some litters.

Can someone make a list of the dogs or litters that could be used to end this mystery?

Great idea Then people who share their lives with the offspring of these dogs can maybe get together and form DNA databanks to prove or disprove the suspicions. It is not good having these suspicions around and to not even be sure if your dog is affected or not. Closure of some form is needed - and soon!

[Vaiva]

Zitat von yukidomari

I'm am a bit confused as to which dogs would be helpful to resolve this problem.

There are a lot of names mentioned on the threads, such as Galiba but then some others saying it is not only Galiba but perhaps some litters.

Can someone make a list of the dogs or litters that could be used to end this mystery?

As far as I understand (but I can still not get it right ), some dogs, who are officially children of Galiba, might be in fact children of the red saarlos.

[Morian]

and at polish forum it was written that red saarlos-alike pups were born by cryings from "r", "s" and "t" litters

[yukidomari]

Zitat von Vaiva

As far as I understand (but I can still not get it right ), some dogs, who are officially children of Galiba, might be in fact children of the red saarlos.

Zitat von Morian

and at polish forum it was written that red saarlos-alike pups were born by cryings from "r", "s" and "t" litters

OK, so does that mean that these litters' DNA would be helpful or not?

There was some information posted that said that there was no way to test for paternity from say 2 half siblings that are said to share the same father, one would need the father's DNA as well.

What I am asking is, which dogs can be TESTED by DNA and be useful to solve this puzzle, not just those which are said to be affected litters?

[Nebulosa]

Zitat von yukidomari

What I am asking is, which dogs can be TESTED by DNA and be useful to solve this puzzle, not just those which are said to be affected litters?

We need the blood of Dvorak, the red Saarloos and possible father of these litters, to compare in paternity test with its possible sons (dogs which had red or "saarloos looking like" pups).

Of course praying that there was only Dvorak at Edith kennel, and no other Saarloos.

[yukidomari]

Zitat von Nebulosa

We need the blood of Dvorak, the red Saarloos and possible father of these litters, to compare in paternity test with its possible sons (dogs which had red or "saarloos looking like" pups).

Of course praying that there was only Dvorak at Edith kennel, and no other Saarloos.

So if the blood of Dvorak is never gotten, this mystery will not be solved by DNA?

[Jennin Lauma]

I still think that comparison between supposed siblings & half-siblings can be done.
I know cases in Finland where such has been made with results that leave no questions if the dogs are truly siblings or not. Allthough these cases I know have not been wolfdogs but other breeds.

[Morian]

Zitat von Jennin Lauma

I still think that comparison between supposed siblings & half-siblings can be done.
I know cases in Finland where such has been made with results that leave no questions if the dogs are truly siblings or not. Allthough these cases I know have not been wolfdogs but other breeds.

i heard about such cases too.

[jmvdwiel]

I also think that it is possibly to find out if dog are related as halfbrother/sister but only by a qualified geneticus, and I think you need to have more siblings that just 2.
Because there is an possibility that 2 siblings from the same litter share no genes with each other , ofcourse they have half of their dna form the father and the other half from the mother.

there is an other thing which makes the comparison difficult and that is that te csw is inbreeded this means that probably my dogs shares genes with not close unrelated dogs also... that makes the comparison difficult.

I get the impression that none of the involved breeders wants to get an answer to this matter, maybe more that one breeder made a mistake? or maybe this red was in the breed already for a long period? all of this can only be solved by comparing a lot of DNA samples..... the question is... who is going to pay for it? and who wants to do the comparison?
And what if the result is not what you wanted?