Litters with unknow HD-results: should be removed or not?

[Nebulosa]

Goup B don't mean they're worst, but that they don't have Bonitation, only that.
I don't see problems in it.. won't be separe as "group A, B and C", but by colors only

[massimo]

I still believe the separation should be done in groups and NOT only by colours.
For Peppe:
you live far away from "serious bonitations" and I understand this.
But you could, by making some extra efforts, go to slovakia or germany or czech republic.
DOGS are not "B series" as if it was a football championship.
it is not the DOGS which are in discussion but the breeders efforts.
Breeders who travel thousands of kilometers deserve to have special reward for traveling all that distance.
You live far away but I know people who came all the way from Denmark to Serramazzoni only for a dog show or others who drove 3.000km from Finland to Slovakia only for a summer camp.
If you want, it will cost you more efforts, but you can.
Let's fix the conditions in such way, I am sure all will make more efforts to have suitable requirements.

Also, please look at the list I posted. Some breeders I consider EXCELLENT have litters in Group B just because they used a MALE which doesn't have bonitation or used a dog which has just youth bonitation and not adult bonitation.
They remain, for me, excellent breeders but chose their way in a respectful manner.
Massimo
Massimo

[btd]

I have voted yes, but agree with Massimo's idea: 3 groups. That will give all information and nothing will be hidden.

[Nebelwölfe]

Originally Posted by massimo

Some breeders I consider EXCELLENT have litters in Group B just because they used a MALE which doesn't have bonitation or used a dog which has just youth bonitation and not adult bonitation.

I think x-raying hipps is really necessary and important for health of the breed - even if it is not required for breeding permission (what I personally can not understand). I think, here it is in the responsability of every good breeder for the health of the breed!

I think it is a good idea to show somehow, which breeders are responsible and do care for the health of the breed and which ones do not.

In Germany bonitation is not necessary for getting breeding permission. Yet, many good breeders do take care for their dogs having bonitation - and the German Club does offer bonitation in Germany once a year. Therefore I also think bonitation is good for the breed - although bonitations have to be looked at very carefully...

BUT with "B-list" I see the following problem for stud dogs for the countries, in which bonitation is not necessary for breeding permission: Sometimes people have good and interesting males as "family dogs" - but sometimes those people are not really interested in breeding. So sometimes the breeder can persuade them to get breeding permission for the male, and they will do it. But the big problem is, that you probably won't get the owner of the male to drive hundreds of kilometers to do a bonitation for this dog - if it is not required. So now - if you as breeder use this stud dog for your bitch and it is a good and responsible mating - you will be in "B-list", even if all your dogs do have bonitation - and "just" because the male does not have bonitation... So it might be a reason, not to take this stud dog - although it would be a good mating???

One of my questions is about HD results in database...
If a dog is 5 years old, has had litters and there is no HD results in the database - I think it is clear: there are no x-rayed hipps and no HD results (or bad results and not published...) . So checking the database I can see myself, that the mated dogs are not x-rayed (and maybe not bonitated). But how about the young breeding dogs?? If there is no HD results in the database - is it, because they are x-rayed, and the results are with Margo already - but not entered in the database yet? Or is it, because the dog is not x-rayed (or with bad HD results) and the results are not with margo (yet)????

Petra

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Goup B don't mean they're worst, but that they don't have Bonitation, only that.
I don't see problems in it.. won't be separe as "group A, B and C", but by colors only

I se your point...

But I still think group´s are the best solution.

I think A and B breeders are good and responsible breeders,
C breeders however are not eaven trying to be serious and
destroy´s the breed and therefore does not eaven deserve to be on C.

Maby A breeders, B breeders and E breeders is better and in color

Best regards / Mikael