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Breed standard & bonitations How typical CzW should look like, measurements and commentaries to the breed standard, information about bonitations and youth presentations....

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Old 23-11-2010, 17:37   #41
Morian
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Originally Posted by wolfin View Post
if typical wolfdog is problem- buy a labrador - york - poodle or others breed. Wolfdog NOT mas be easy and calm and nice doggy from alls people
so what is the wolfdog's typical temperament?
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Old 23-11-2010, 18:12   #42
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so what is the wolfdog's typical temperament?
Lively, very active, persistent, obedient, with quick reactions, fearless and courageous. Mistrustful. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.
sad when this type wolfdog we can see less and less
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Old 23-11-2010, 18:16   #43
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ok, , I have recognize well my dogs in this explanation
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Old 23-11-2010, 18:17   #44
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Originally Posted by wolfin View Post
Lively, very active, persistent, obedient, with quick reactions, fearless and courageous. Mistrustful. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.
sad when this type wolfdog we can see less and less
well. now sorry for my english...
obidient but living acccording to the "pack rules" - is it possible? dog's law is not human's law...
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Old 23-11-2010, 18:39   #45
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My personal oppinion is yes Margo...csw's are very intelligent, could study easily.....but not the classical working dogs , and not the breed which is good for IPO work. It is not means that some of them couldn't pass.....but those who worked with malinois or gsd...those surely could feel the differences
Yes - I would never buy a Wolfdog for IPO, KPNV or mondio. BUT... Wolfdogs were not made for such work....


But let's be honest GSD and Malinois-owners/trainers are.... cheating....

I can prepare some exams which Wolfdogs will pass very easy but here all GSD will fail...

The main "working" exams were made for GSDs (old type) and are also easily to pass for malinois (which are in the fact similar to the "old style" GSD). Wolfdogs have problems topass them because many parts are just simple circus - they do not test the dogs but test if is is possible to train a dog to make a tricks wich have no sence....

Simple example:
SchH - the dog must bark for 20.seconds... Everyone knows that Wolfdogs DO NOT BARK. They see no sense to yap.... Because of it many of the get zero points for it... Why there are no exams where the dogs CAN NOT bark...? Because 90% of GSD would fail?

Another example: tracking by IPO exams... Sorry but to get maximum points you need really a DUMB dog... A dog which HAVE NO IDEA how to track... or... a dog which will fulfill the commands of his owner EVEN of they are totaly idiotic....
The track is about 20 minuts old - it means it is FRESH and the parts of the the smell are still present in the air. No good tracking dog will work on such track with DEEP NOSE - which is required by IPO exam. Every clever dog will use also HIGH NOSE. Because CzWs are perfect tracking dogs and because they are clever dogs they will get less points than GSD or malinois. Maybe they will not even pass this part...
(of course it is possible to train also Wolfdogs to use DEEP NOSE on fresh tracks - but it is harder to do than with "working" breeds. Wolfdogs no to like to make senseless things)

Because of it:
If I would need a dog for tracking exams I would buy GSD or malinois.
If I would need a dog for work - dogs which can track everywere and everything - I would take CzW.

Simply said:
If I would need a "tool" which should fulfil my commands without asking "do you think it make sence" or saying "...but I will make it my way, I can make it better" I would buy one of the "working" dogs.
If I would need a dog who sometimes must work also alone and sometimes must find some solutions by himself - I would take a Wolfdog.


Do you know the story with GSD tracking a missed person? The dogs were tracking it "wonderful" with deep nose but none of the dogs found him...because he was sitting on a tree and none of the dogs was TREAINED to look also up... Wolfdogs have no such problem...
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Old 23-11-2010, 18:48   #46
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well. now sorry for my english...
obidient but living acccording to the "pack rules" - is it possible? dog's law is not human's law...
I would not translate is a obedient but more "easy to train". Where "easy" do not mean that he can be trained like GSD but it is more about his ability to learn very fast.
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Old 23-11-2010, 18:54   #47
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For what I know, obedient can be translated also as "docile", which would fit better and also beat with the different translations of the standard.
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Old 23-11-2010, 19:03   #48
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For what I know, obedient can be translated also as "docile"
Polish translation of "docile" means a dog who behaves this way:

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Old 23-11-2010, 19:17   #49
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Originally Posted by z Peronówki View Post
I would not translate is a obedient but more "easy to train". Where "easy" do not mean that he can be trained like GSD but it is more about his ability to learn very fast.
i meant only that really obidient dog will not growl etc.

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Originally Posted by z Peronówki View Post
The pack behaviour of dogs base on dominancy. Dominancy is connected with agression (or better said with different kinds of agression). Two fighting males are not "agressive dogs" but dogs which behave like...DOGS.
Males growling on other males in the ring are normal. Dog not tolerating dogs from other "packs" are normal too....
because really obidient dogs live accordong to their owners' rules
but well... i don't have perfect dogs too...
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Old 23-11-2010, 19:18   #50
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Originally Posted by z Peronówki View Post
Polish translation of "docile" means a dog who behaves this way:

Then, submissive, respectfull, completing with all what is writte in the character, we can read it as "a dog which will not try to eat the owner in revolt when the owner impose something".
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Old 23-11-2010, 19:29   #51
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I know many dogs than working in IPO and are good family dogs, off course they are most dificult than a Corgi, but they live in family with childreen, others dogs, others animal, no problem with people. From other breeds, and Czw too. I think than a breed, is a working breed, the caracter can't be change because many people want dog like a wolf, but don't want hard dog to keep. I think it is the duty of the breeder follow the standard and not follow the market demand.
For me CzW must be like standard debscrition.
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Old 23-11-2010, 19:33   #52
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I think it is the duty of the breeder follow the standard and not follow the market demand.
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Old 23-11-2010, 19:40   #53
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so csv are great working dogs but tests are stupid. ok. but they are also not chosen for real work. for reserch too.


loco, my csv barks too and I train her in sport tracking
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Old 24-11-2010, 00:24   #54
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GREAT!!!
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Old 24-11-2010, 09:49   #55
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Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
But I think we both agree, that a life stock guarding dog like an Owtscharka is bred for totally different work than a wolfdog and therefor needs very different skills for work in itself. And in times of dangerous dog lists one should maybe think a little bit about the different circumstances in life. They simply don´t live in the border corridor any longer to prevent people to leave the country. But live in the middle of everything and live with their families.
Apart from that I start to think the problem here is a language one.
And still I don´t know what is untypical about this one dog.

Atypical, because he is a nice,kind, handable dog. Everybody could touch him, didn't show agressivity and even could be together with other males.
In Nitra we could be together with the same "pack" with Gisu, Gandalf and Emir, 3 adult males without any problem. They don't want to kill each other. For me it doesn't mean that they are atypical csw's but mean they are clear minded, stabil , well socialized dogs with good caracter .
And this kind of caracter is not the opposit what is written in the standard , and I couldn't see the connection this behaviour and working ability.
I realy don't think that the agressiv, dominant dogs would be wished nowadays.


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Old 24-11-2010, 12:04   #56
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Originally posted by Edit / jasmine:

I realy don't think that the aggressiv, dominant dogs would be wished nowadays.

Yeah, that´s right - it´s exactly my opinion also !
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Old 24-11-2010, 12:23   #57
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Originally Posted by z Peronówki
CzWs are MUCH MORE inteligent...
It's interesting as not necessarily true and often (always) told by CSV people, the word 'intelligent' is so problematic, you may know the wolves -as I guess we would all qualify as so 'intelligent'- are performing less better than dogs to many tests, problem of 'fitting' in an environment, and regarding this point I'm sure the CSV would not overcome. Sure each tests is 'oriented', but anyway interesting enough to keep in mind.
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Old 24-11-2010, 13:35   #58
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Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
Atypical, because he is a nice,kind, handable dog. Everybody could touch him, didn't show agressivity and even could be together with other males.
In Nitra we could be together with the same "pack" with Gisu, Gandalf and Emir, 3 adult males without any problem. They don't want to kill each other. For me it doesn't mean that they are atypical csw's but mean they are clear minded, stabil , well socialized dogs with good caracter .
So everybody whos male dogs are growling on other males have not stable, bad socialized, bad minded dogs with bad character?
Because "typical CzW male loves to play and kiss other males"....?

So we have breed full of atypical dogs.... and you are the only one with the perfect animals...


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I realy don't think that the agressiv, dominant dogs would be wished nowadays.
Sorry but I get allergic when I read such words....

"Aggressiv", "dominant" - what kind of breed do you want to have? Sofa dog? With lack of basic pack bahaviour? Dogs with character of a sheep?
Upps... even sheeps are pretty agressiv... And rams are VERY dominant.
As "agressiv" you can describe poodles, and yorkshire terriers (they are real beasts!). French bulldogs - killers! Did you saw how angry can be chihuahua male? When he meets another male? Sorry, but you are attacking dogs of other owners only because they behave like NORMAL DOGS!!!

10 years ago there was the same situation in Germany - Pavel and many other people will confirm it... It was the time when there were much more Saarloos Wolfdogs in Germany and CzW first started to won the publicity...
Saarloos owners attacked our breed EXACTLY with the same words: that our breed should die out because it is made of aggressive dogs. Because Saarlooos never fight with each other. They love each other - even adult males. There are no 'dominancy' against people - never are agressive against other dogs. The preffer to run away if something happend. That "we" (society) do not need "agressive" dogs like CzW.

They said EXACTLY the same.

Please - Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs ARE and SHOULD be as written in the breed standard. Please stop to make any advertising for not typical behaviour. Yes, some dogs are different - it is not a problem. But they have unusual character. And dogs like this for sure are not something which other breeders should follow.

If you keep typical character of CzW for "too agressiv", "too active" or "too self-confident" maybe it is the time to change the breed. Saarloos Wolfhounds are very nice dogs, which look similar to CzW. Such character is welcome there... And nobody will care if it will be not possible to make anything serious with the dogs...
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Old 24-11-2010, 13:43   #59
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I realy don't think that the agressiv, dominant dogs would be wished nowadays.
One more question: if you believe in your words why did you use Carr, Juri, Geri? All of them are "dominant" dogs (I personally call them "normal"). Why you made litters with Hitt, Borko, Koro and Ali - they are "dominant" even compared to other "dominant" CzW males?

Why you use males which you describe as not normal? And "not needed"?
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Old 24-11-2010, 13:52   #60
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[quote=Margo;339786]So everybody whos male dogs are growling on other males have not stable, bad socialized, bad minded dogs with bad character?
Because "typical CzW male loves to play and kiss other males"....?

So we have breed full of atypical dogs.... and you are the only one with the perfect animals...



Have I wrote these ??? Please show me where !!!
And don't turn out my words. We all know what I was talking about!
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